Nintendo either doesn’t care or doesn’t understand “core” gamers any more
July 23rd, 2008, 2:56am by JeffBefore E3, undoubtedly hearing complaints that they didn’t care about the core gamer any more, Nintendo said that core gamers would be happy with their E3 showing. Well, most of the gaming press was pretty disappointed with their press conference, so Nintendo then claimed that Animal Crossing was a “hardcore” title, and then also reversed positions and claimed that actually, they weren’t targeting the core with E3. Still not satisfied, enterprising journalists followed-up with them again where they reiterated that the hardcore market is “critically important” to them and pointed to Super Mario Sluggers and the as of yet unseen GTA DS as proof. Realizing that the community was still clearly unsatisfied, in a somewhat amazing development, Nintendo’s President Iwata finally issued an apology for the weak press conference. But in his apology, he also reveals that he may not really understand core gamers any more:
”If there is any perception that Nintendo is ignoring the core gamers, it’s a misunderstanding and we really want to get rid of that misunderstanding by any means. We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings, specifically for those who were expecting to see Nintendo show something about ‘Super Mario’ or ‘Legend of Zelda.’”
Look, sure “core” gamers would love to see what’s happening with Mario or Zelda, but certainly that’s not the only thing that “core” gamers like. Many people thought that maybe Nintendo would announce a completely new property or show off more information about games we already know about like Disaster: Day of Crisis (or heck, maybe even a rebirth of Project H.A.M.M.E.R.) Mario and Zelda aren’t the only possible weapons in your arsenal, Nintendo. At least, they didn’t use to be.
I realize that “core” gamer is a difficult definition to absolutely nail down, as well. But what Nintendo is pointing to seems to be fairly clearly not something targeted towards even the Mario or Zelda crowd. A lot of “core” gamers may even enjoy games like Wii Sports Resort or Super Mario Sluggers, but those still don’t represent the kinds of games that they crave.
Minor update: Post corrected “Crisis: Day of Disaster” to “Disaster: Day of Crisis”
Posted in Nintendo, Commentary, E3 |
July 23rd, 2008 at 7:31 am
I would lean towards the “doesn’t care.” But it’s benign neglect rather than malevolent distaste that’s driving their reactions.
Nintendo fans (myself included) have long been suckers for the older franchises that we cut our teeth on, and so Nintendo can slate a new Mario or Zelda without thinking too much about it. But development an entirely new franchise, like Nintendo used to undertake fairly regularly, would involve a great deal more effort than would pay off for them - their bread and butter now is casual stuff (however you want to define the term).
I suspect that because they’re so focused on driving the growth of their new breadbasket - and I can’t really blame them for that, I guess - they assume they can get away with a new megafranchise entry every so often. It’s sad, but I guess not all that unexpected. Other studios, and other platforms, are picking up the slack.
July 23rd, 2008 at 11:04 am
Geoff-
I’m also more or less in the group of “Nintendo Loyalists”. I love their “core” franchises, if you will, but I’m also worried that maybe even the ones we’ve seen so far are going to be sort of the last ones ever. They certainly don’t seem to have a big game for this winter (I guess Animal Crossing, which apparently looks and plays identically to the GCN one, is their “big” game for November). I’m sort of dreading to see what they come up with for the next Zelda, although perhaps the new WiiMotionPlus will result in an effort to put 1:1 swordplay into a new Zelda (which could be fantastic or terrible).
The true test of my loyalty, I suppose, will come with their next system.
July 23rd, 2008 at 11:51 am
I think they are in a tough position and I’m not sure what the best way to figure it out is. Clearly they are not nailing it, but lets take a look at the formula Nintendo need to balance with regard to people in the media.
1. “Nintendo is neglecting the core gamer”
2. “Nintendo 1st party games haven an unfair advantage and cause 3rd party titles to suffer”
3. “Nintendo constantly regurgitates (milks) it’s core franchises”
The problem becomes, how do we disprove one of the above without giving more fuel to the other 2 complaints?
It’s not easy, thats’ for sure. I think they are trying to sort it out, with an extra inclination to tend towards the expanded audience.
A big part of the problem, I think, is that the gaming media is used to getting it’s ass kissed. Unfortunately, due to Nintendos new market, the gaming media has become much less useful.
Also of note, the quote mentioned above (as was mentioned in a prior post) really wasnt saying “core gamers will like what we do at E3″ but rather, “we have news that will interest the core gamer AROUND THE TIME of E3″.
July 23rd, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Hahaha. Ah yes, what the gaming community [note: i said community, not the useless media] has known for a significant period of time is manifested explicitly [surprisingly so, I would say] from the mouth of the president of Nintendo himself.
Cisco,
All your three points are interesting, but does not merit the “it’s tough for NIntendo. They’re between a rock and a hard place” apologist argument. Just look at Microsoft: creating 1st party games, some NEW IPs [hey Nintendo fans - ever heard of that concept? New franchises! Yea it’s a mind blowing concept, i know], supporting faithful gaming community with improving service, and supporting 3rd parties with great development tools and assistance.
THere is nothing to argue here, unless you are a soccer mom/grandad type that cares for superficial, low-quality casual games, and don’t care about games with depth, fun factor, and great features and great support [note how i didn’t mention ‘high production values’].
NIntendo is not failing to understand the wishes of their easily exploited, mindless fanbase. On the contrary: Nintendo fully UNDERSTANDS the rule of the game, the number one priority:
aim for the money.
There IS no number 2 priority.
July 24th, 2008 at 12:01 am
“Just look at Microsoft:”
That would be an interesting concept but for the fact that MS is in a completely different position with regard to the gaming media. They are currently the darling of the hardcore press, simply because they are working to directly appease them and by extension that type of gamer who views things in a similar fashion.
I find it somewhat telling that you (and lots of similarly “minded” internet types) find it necessary to bash Nintendo for no “NEW IPs [hey Nintendo fans - ever heard of that concept?” when they have released more new IP in the last 4 years then they have in the prior decade. It seems that simply because the IP doesn’t target your tastes directly, it therefore doesn’t exist. This type of closed-minded viewpoint drastically hinders the validity of your already overly sarcastic comments.
I’m not saying I’m in love with a lot of Nintendo’s new IP, but it’s real and there’s no denying much of its success. Although, some of it is much more to my liking than others.
I’m not incredibly thrilled with there new IP like
Wii-Fit
Wii-Music
Nintendogs
but, I would like to see more new IP like:
Battalion Wars
Brain Age
ElectroPlankton
Excite Truck
Chibi-Robo
Geist
Wii-Sports
Endless Ocean
Big Brain Academy
Hotel Dusk
Super Mario Strikers
Master of Illusion
Polarium
Flash Focus
All the above are Nintendo published IPs and new (to my knowledge) in the last few years. I could name more, but these are what come to mind quickly whenever people whine about Nintendo not putting out any new IP.
The thing that bothers me, is that many publishers get congratulated by the gaming media and hardcore gamers for all their “new IP” when said new IP is simply another FPS, Res Ev or GTA clone.
July 24th, 2008 at 3:12 am
1. Many of the games you listed are of questionable quality - or at least debatable. Hotel Dusk? Excite Truck? Brain Age? MASTER OF ILLUSION? What’s next, Wine Taster DS? Oh wait…..
There are these things called “features.” Like competent online play. Allowing music customized to ingame. Also, “setting the bar higher.” By better features, a new idea, a new concept, a mix of concepts, any of the like. I’m sure you’re well aquainted with these concepts. I’m not so sure the Ninthing fanbase or Ninty itself does.
2. When a gaming media “congratulates” a dev, they do so with so little journalistic integrity that it’s not worth mentioning.
3. I agree with you that often, new IPs are just new IPs with old ideas. I’d rather have old IPs with new ideas [Mario Galaxy] than new IPs with old ideas [insert some shooter here]. THat said, you overestimate “new ideas” from Nintendo that are also of arguable quality.
In fact, Ninty gets a rough time for rehashing shit, and deservedly so. I love(d) zelda, but come on…. also, Pikmin 3? It’s getting old man, just play the second one. Pokeymanz? Another Animal Crossing, the same old from GC? Some mario spinoff? Next thing you know, you are going to call Mario Cricket as a new IP that proves Ninty’s fresh ideas. Jesus Christ Crucified, man.
You also underestimate what non-Nintendo or non-Wii developers bring fresh to the table. Even in teh FPS genre. For every lame Resistance, there’s Portal, TF2, Mirror Edge. In fact, with all due respect, YOU are the one who appears more close minded. You seem so easily disparaging, or at least willfully ignorant of contributions from many, far lesser-hyped developers bring not just to competing consoles, but to PCs. You seem so willing - as I’ve seen many sensitive fans do - to defend games like Brain Training or Wii Sports or whatever as “It’s better than you think. You just hate unusual, different games.”
There’s different.
And then there’s shallow.
Nintendo’s road to victory is paved with piles of the latter.
PS: congratulations on avoiding personal attacks or trivializing my set of opinions. Keep this up and I may even continue responding to your posts.
July 24th, 2008 at 7:14 am
“Many of the games you listed are of questionable quality ”
Wait wait wait. I’ve just demonstrated a pretty substantial list of NEW IP from Nintendo in the last few years. So now your attempting to move the goalposts to a debate about quality? That’s some weak sauce Laspy. No joy, I won’t chase your argument to something more subjective. Although, I will say, Hotel Dusk was VERY high quality IMO and Excite Truck is one of my favorite games this gen.
Again, it’s not surprising that you have a hard time distinguishing quality if the title is not to your interest. I would personally question the quality of a lot of games/genres that I’m not interested in.
I’ll also say that my ENTIRE family not only enjoyed Brain Age, but actually loved it. On the contrary, no one in my family but me showed any interest in Portal or TF2.
Here’s the thing Laspy, I not only enjoy the act of gaming, but I get maximally increased joy when I can share that game with someone I care about, and talk about it and share experiences with someone close to me about it. These are things I can do with games like Brain Age and Hotel Dusk that I can’t do with a game like Mirror Edge. This ability weighs much more heavily in my game choice than whether or not I can customize a music soundtrack or some other new “feature” that “raises the bar”.
It would seem that you and I value completely different gaming experiences. And that’s fine, but lets not close ourselves to what others might look for in a game. It’s very likely different than what you and I want.
I’m not going to sit hear and tell you that something you really enjoy is bad. What sense does that make? Every game does not have to be appealing to me. Not even MOST games need to be appealing to me. I only hope that ENOUGH games are appealing to me. And they are. Even on the Wii. I don’t know why some people (in particular the gaming media and hardcore) are bothered by that.
“You also underestimate what non-Nintendo or non-Wii developers bring fresh to the table. ”
Not at all. It’s just the opposite in fact. I personally think that 3rd party developers are HUGELY important when it comes to bringing fresh ideas to the table, even if it is simply a fresh idea brought to a stale genre. I don’t expect new IP to BE new genre, but it’s certainly nice to see both.
July 24th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Actually, I think you come close to hiting the nail on the head with this cisco:
“It seems that simply because the IP doesn’t target your tastes directly, it therefore doesn’t exist.”
It’s not that it doesn’t exist, but it just proves Nintendo’s indifference to the crowd that originally made them a hit in the first place. That’s not to say they shouldn’t be expanding their market, but at this point it almost seems like they’re excising one market in favor of another, instead of “expanding”. The list of games you mention sort of proves it, questionable quality or not. And Nintendo says they have no more surprises for this year, so other than perhaps the “sleeper” De Blob, I don’t think there’s a single other Wii game I’m interested in this year. Of course, I suppose Nintendo fans have gotten used to this over the past few years.
July 24th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
I’m certainly not trying to argue that Nintendos focus hasn’t shifted. But let’s be honest. Nintendo has NEVER bombarded us with “core” titles. They haven’t even ever been GOOD at getting core FRANCHISES out the door. The last 2 gens, we often waited years for each installment, but in the interim, we got essentially nothing. This gen, we may still wait years, but in the interim we get Wii Sports/Fit/Music etc.
My only point is that this isn’t quite the volcanic shift in strategy/focus that the gaming media would have you believe. If you believe what you read, you’d think that Nintendo first party was recently the bastion of “core” gaming, which, honestly, it never was. Now, if you want to go back to the days of the NES, paradigms are drastically different altogether (in most cases “core” games WERE casual games). I’m speaking more specifically of the Nintendo we’ve known since the N64 was released.
July 24th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Cisco-
Strangely enough, I actually wrote almost exactly what you just did not too long ago for a column.
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/04/24/counting-rupees-the-wiicube/
I suppose this is still true, but I get the feeling, particularly from this past E3 and the fact that they basically have not a single “core” game lined up for this winter, that things are tilting even more heavily towards the “casual” market. I think most people expected Nintendo to show off a winter game that was more in line with Zelda or Mario or whatever (though not necessarily a Zelda or Mario game), rather than just Animal Crossing Remake 3.
July 24th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
I don’t recall, but it seems like there were holidays in the N64 and Cube era that were without any major Nintendo franchises (not including pokemon). Or maybe I’m just remembering things worse than they were.
Nintendo stepped out of form when they released their major games all so close to launch. I think historically, they would have been more careful to spread them out.
July 24th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Thanks for the thoughtful response, cisco.
Now lemme rebut
1. I would like to repeat what I said about “quality.” We’re not talking about “I like this game, you don’t like this game.” No, I am talking somehting far more concrete, more objective, more tangible than that. I refer to “features” that are relevant to the game [ex. Smash Brawl and Strikers, to name a few, underdeliver badly badly compared to competition] and “depth.” No I don’t mean 20-hour cutscenes kind of depth, I mean not being shallow.
for ex., Wii SPorts is an icon of this generation, and deservedly so. ANd it brings people together, no kidding. But it is shallow. Just because it creates fun in a group setting does not mean it’s not shallow. THere is no depth.
Do you see what I mean? I am not referring to preference of game content, but rather the existence of certain kinds of game content.
2. I am glad you brought up N64 and GC. Lets compare:
N64/GC resemble Wii in that:
- both pale badly in comparison to competition
- both have a shortage of canon NIntendo titles
- starting with GC, there was rehashing, regurtitation, recycling of game ideas. Hey, I liked the N64, unlike most gamers.
But, Wii is worse than N64/GC, in that
- Not only is there a deluge of garbage from 3rd parties, but so is from Nintendo itself.
- While 1st party titles were the sole lifeblood of the previous consoles, the Wii’s sole lifeblood [not talking sales wise] is increasingly and increasingly the casual and low-quality games from both Ninty and 3rd parties. Lemme restate that:
The regurtitaion of canon Ninty franchises are replaced, not supplemented with new IPs that are casual and low quality, or old IPs with dumbed down/casualization process [Mario Kart is worse than ever, Zelda BOw training or whatever].
IN any case, you keep enjoying party games that, while providing temporary party joy, are shallow in content and spirit.
The rest of us will smile and call a spade a spade.
July 24th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
@Laspy,
“Do you see what I mean? ”
Yes. I do. Unfortunately, even attempting to debate the objective nature of quality is still simply a diversion from the only point I was in contention with you on.
That being, your sarcastic comment about Nintendo not releasing new IP. I’ve made it pretty clear that you were in error with that statement. Although I can’t really blame you since it’s a baseless meme that inundates us regularly on the intarwebs that’s most likely explained by the comments Jeff and I made above.
That out of the way, much of what you say is true about the GC/N64 era, however, it only solidifies the further point I made that things are not THAT much different this gen than the last 2.
Love or Hate Nintendo and their first party efforts. Thats fine and I’ll never argue a point like that. But don’t fall into the same trap as the gaming media and get all melodramatic about how Nintendo has done some mysterious about-face with regard to the core. It’s simply not born out by the facts.
“IN any case, you keep enjoying party games”
I guess I missed the “party games” in the list I mentioned above.
Again, it’s comments like that, that make it appear that you are predisposed to an opinion (Wii gamers simply like shitty party games) and aren’t really putting much stock into the words I actually type (a list of new IP that contains zero party games). It’s like your mind is already made up and therefore your opinion continues undeterred by contradicting evidence. I’m not sure if that’s the case, but thats the closed-minded appearance I was referring to. Maybe you’re just being sarcastic. It’s honestly hard to tell.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
I don’t understand why you keep repeating that I am sarcastic. There’s nothing sarcastic about anything I said in this whole page, imo. When I am sarcastic, usually one can tell.
That said, well argued. I’ll draw the line here.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
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July 24th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
Not to belabor the discussion (as has been done already), but I think this bears mentioning because I think there is a distinction that’s being missed by Laspy and it’s creating a barrier to communication.
“There’s nothing sarcastic about anything I said in this whole page”
Sarcasm: A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
“1st party games, some NEW IPs [hey Nintendo fans - ever heard of that concept? ”
This is ridicule because you are sarcastically asking if Nintendo Fans have ever heard of the concept of new IPs. Obviously they have.
“New franchises! Yea it’s a mind blowing concept, i know],”
More sarcasm with the same basis for ridicule.
“NIntendo is not failing to understand the wishes of their easily exploited, mindless fanbase.”
Not sure if that was sarcasm, or simply a puerile comment.
“What’s next, Wine Taster DS?”
This comes off as very sarcastic.
“The rest of us will smile and call a spade a spade.”
This sarcastically implies that you’re somehow smarter than those whose gaming tastes don’t match your own, or that those gamers (me included) are refusing to see some inarguable truth about gaming.
So, yes, lots of sarcasm peppered in your posts.
But even so, I DO appreciate you avoiding some bizarre political metaphor.
July 27th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Hey guys, off topic here:
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117989566.html?categoryid=20&cs=1
Discussion of publisher domination of the VG industry. This is on par, if not bigger a concern, than Gamestop or Britian’s GAME dominating the retail industry. How bouts some discussion on this?